UTOKing with Gregg Podcast

This podcast is devoted to exploring visions of knowledge and wisdom in the 21st Century. The podcast is framed by the concept of "dialogos," which refers to a form of reflective dialogue that cultivates deep interpersonal relating and existential insight and understanding. UTOKing is, of course, a play on words and references the Unified Theory of Knowledge.

The Podcast's guiding frame is...

Introduction to UTOKing with Gregg: Podcast History and Overview

In this introduction and overview, Gregg recounts the history that led him to launch this podcast. It narrates both the development of the Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK) and it provides the context for how he came to be connected with new emerging communities (e.g., Game B, metamodern, Rebel Wisdom, Intellectual Deep/Dark Web).

Here is the link to the audio podcast.


Episode 1: UTOKing with John Vervaeke April 15, 2021

Title: The Value of Dialogos

In this first episode of UTOKing, Gregg is joined by John Vervaeke to discuss the synergy that is emerging between John's integrative approach to cognitive science and the UTOK metapsychology. They introduce the concept of dialogos, recount aspects of their respective journeys, articulate what it means to seek a coherent naturalistic ontology that can revitalize the soul and spirit in the 21st Century.

For a 3 minute clip, see here: https://youtu.be/m8gnJiBTpNo

John's YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpqDUjTsof-kTNpnyWper_Q

John's Facebook is here: https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn

Episode 2: UTOKing with Layman Pascal April 19, 2021

Title: "The Greatest Conversation in the History of Discourse"

In Episode 2, Gregg welcomes Layman Pascal. The title is taken from the opening exchange, where the two set the bar of expectation for what follows. Layman recounts his journey into philosophy and mysticism and his desire to connect many perspectives together. The linkages between metamodernism, integral theory, and the UTOK metapsychology are explored, and they highlight possible visions for a religion that is not a religion in the 21st Century.

Three minute clip of the conversation on the future of religion

The Integral Stage YouTube Channel; Layman's Facebook Page

Episode 3: UTOKing with Bruce Alderman April 22, 2021

Title: Toward a Sacred Naturalism

In Episode 3, Gregg welcomes Bruce Alderman. Bruce is a philosopher and spiritual seeker who has deep knowledge of many Eastern traditions and Integral Theory, and he cohosts the Integral Stage with Layman. Bruce shares his journey and how he became interested in metaphysics and developed his approach to Integral Grammatology. Gregg and Bruce then engage in a dialogos that explores the intersection of their worldviews and the implications of achieving a healthy sacred naturalism in the 21st Century.

Three minute clip on learning from other traditions.

Bruce's Facebook page; Bruce on his Integral Grammatology.

Episode 4: UTOKing with Rob Scott April 26, 2021

Title: Understanding the Fundamental Shift

In Episode 4, Gregg welcomes Rob Scott. Rob is a coach and philosopher who has developed a powerful philosophy on living that he calls "The Fundamental Shift." It involves stepping outside of the lenses of our thoughts and how they shape what we see and achieve a greater awareness on how we shape what we see and how we can use that knowledge to adopt more functional lenses that allow us to get a more optimal grip on our relationship with the world.

A brief clip describing the process of becoming aware of the lenses we bring to the world.

Check out Rob's work here.

Episode 5: UTOKing with Lene Rachel Andersen April 29, 2021

Title: Building Bildung in the 21st Century

In Episode 5, Gregg welcomes Lene Rachel Andersen. Lene is a futurist, philosopher, and award winning author of several books, including The Nordic Secret: A European Story of Beauty and Freedom, and Metamodernity: Meaning and Hope in a Complex World. Lene is a leader of the European Bildung Network, which promotes the concept of "bildung," which refers to the interplay between education and knowledge that are necessary for a thriving society. In this interview, she shares her vision for a metamodern society shaped by the educational philosophy of bildung.

Here is brief clip on her vision for government and reflective politics.

The European Bildung Network; Lene Rachel Andersen's homepage.

Episode 6: UTOKing with David Fuller May 2, 2021

Title: Surveying the Sense-Making Communities

In Episode 6, Gregg welcomes David Fuller. David is a professional journalist, reporter, documentary filmmaker and writer who is a leader in the alternative sense-making communities. He is founder of Rebel Wisdom and has spearheaded the conversation about the kinds of changes we may be seeing or need to see in the world in the 21st Century. In this conversation, he and Gregg talk about their respective journeys, their opinions and experiences regarding the Jordan Peterson phenomena and the future trajectory of this metamodern, Game B, integral-unified space.

Here is a clip where David speaks about the trajectory of the media. Here is one where Gregg speaks about Jordan Peterson.

Here is David Fuller's homepage.

Episode 7: UTOKing with Tomas Björkman May 6, 2021

Title: Toward a Metamodern Worldview

In Episode 7, Gregg welcomes Tomas Björkman. Tomas is an applied philosopher and social entrepreneur. He is author/coauthor of several books, including The Nordic Secret: A European Story of Beauty and Freedom, and The World We Create: From God to Market. He is a leader in the metamodern space and has contributed to many crucial ventures, such as Rebel Wisdom, the WhatIsEmerging Platform, and Perspectiva. In this conversation, he and Gregg discuss the crucial point the world is at and how a new worldview might be emerging that can helpfully frame this transition.

Here is brief clip on their discussion about emerging worldviews.

Tomas Björkman's home page.

Episode 8: UTOKing with Zak Stein May 13, 2021

Title: The Consilience Project and Moving Toward a Coherent Metapsychology in the 21st Century

In Episode 8, Gregg welcomes Zak Stein. Zak is a writer, futurist and educational philosopher and a leading sense-maker in the emerging metamodern space. He is author of Education in a Time Between Worlds: Essays on the Future of Schools, Technology, and Society and Social Justice and Educational Measurement: John Rawls, the History of Testing, and the Future of Education. In this conversation, he shares with Gregg his journey, his vision of a metapsychology that embraces skill development, ensoulment and transcendence, and his work on the Consilience Project and its vision for a cultural renaissance and new approach to media.

Here is a brief clip about justification systems in a fragmented media landscape.

Here is Zak's homepage.

Episode 9: UTOKing with Alexander Bard May 17, 2021

Title: Dark Renaissance versus Enlightenment 2.0

In Episode 9, Gregg welcomes Alexander Bard. He is a philosopher, music producer, and highly sought-after international lecturer. He is the author of the highly successful The Futurica Trilogy - co-written with media theorist Jan Söderqvist, and more recently Syntheism: Creating God in the Internet Age and Digital Libido. He founded the Intellectual Deep Web list serve, which is an active discussion group that brings leading thinkers and futurists together. In this UTOKing dialogos, the two explore their visions for the future, framed by Bard's Dark Renaissance and Gregg's Enlightenment 2.0, and the relationship between psychology, science and philosophy.

Here is a clip exploring their respective visions for the future.

Here are links to Alexander Bard on Twitter and Wiki.

Episode 10: UTOKing with Tim Adalin May 20, 2021

Title: A Deep Dive into the Current and Future State of Humanity

In Episode 10, Gregg welcomes Tim Adalin. Tim is a philosopher and a significant "live player" in the emerging sense-making space. He is the curator of the Voicecraft podcast explores the art of philosophy with visionaries and resonant souls. In this dialogos, he and Gregg explore the "kairos" of the moment and how the world is in the midst of a major transformation.

Here is a clip where Gregg and Tim riff on the future of humanity.

Here is Tim on Twitter and here is the link to Voicecraft Channel on YouTube.


Episode 11: UTOKing with Greg Thomas May 24, 2021

Title: Cultivating the Blues Idiom Wisdom Tradition

In Episode 11, Gregg welcomes Greg Thomas. He is a philosopher, writer, teacher, and entrepreneur. He is CEO of the Jazz Leadership Project, and a senior fellow for the Institute for Cultural Evolution. Since the pandemic and social uprising, he has been featured on a range of online platforms discussing race, culture, and leadership, including Rebel Wisdom, The Daily Evolver, Aligned Center, Coaches Rising, and Integral Life. His blog is Tune In To Leadership. In March, Greg and Gregg hosted the Body and Soul series at the Stoa.

Here is a clip where he elaborates on the Blues Idiom Wisdom Tradition.

Here is Greg on Twitter; here is his profile at the Jazz Leadership Project.

Episode 12: UTOKing with Steve Quackenbush May 31, 2021

Title: The Problem of Value in Psychology

In Episode 12, Gregg welcomes Steve Quackenbush. Steve is a professor of psychology and Associate Provost and Dean of Arts & Science at the University of Maine at Farmington. He has long-standing scholarly interests in human development, narrative approaches, existential philosophy and reflecting on the problem of human values in psychological science. He is an award winning teacher, and a long time executive member of the Theory Of Knowledge Society. Much of this UTOKing episode explores how the complex theories might be transformed for a more general audience so they can apply the insights in a practical way.

Here is a clip where Steve talks about how generativity is the antidote of depression.

Here is Steve's homepage at the University of Maine at Farmington.

Episode 13: UTOKing with Manuel Manga June 7, 2021

Title: Leading Toward Conscious Evolution

In Episode 13, Gregg welcomes Manuel Manga. He is an organizational consultant, facilitator, and leadership coach with international experience. He is a founder of the Center for Evolutionary Leadership. In this episode, Manuel explores with Gregg his journey learning from pioneers like Buckminster Fuller, Jonas Salk, Humberto Maturana, and Fernando Flores. The conversation then evolves to the current state of the world and visions for a sustainable global village.

Here is a clip where Manuel discusses the nature of the human condition and leading into the next global age.

Here is Manuel's Facebook page and here is the link to the Center for Evolutionary Leadership.

Episode 14: UTOKing with Nick Jankel June 14, 2021

Title: Repairing the Mind/Body Schism

In Episode 14, Gregg welcomes Nick Jankel. Nick is a philosopher, keynote speaker and co-founder of Switch On. He is also the author of several books including Spiritual Atheist and Switch On: Unleash Your Creativity and Thrive with the New Science & Spirit of Breakthrough. In this moving conversation, Nick shares his intellectual, emotional, and spiritual journey to develop wisdom and connection. He and Gregg discuss how similar their worldviews are and why a scientific worldview is very commensurate with a transcendent spiritual orientation toward wise living.

Here is a clip where Nick and Gregg discuss the need for a revamped view of mind, body and spirit.

Here is the link to Switch On; and here is his twitter feed.

Episode 15: UTOKing with Daniel Fraga and Owen Cox June 21, 2021

Title: The TechnoSocial Singularity

In Episode 15, Gregg welcomes Daniel Fraga and Owen Cox. Founders of the TechnoSocial Podcast, Owen and Daniel are on the leading edge of thought exploring how new technologies will reshape human societies and allow humans to redesign themselves. In this episode, they explore the concept of "the singularity" as a powerful symbol of the transition to the digital age, and note how it intersects with technology, social organization, and the 5th joint point on the ToK System.

Here is a clip where they explore the facets of the 21st Century singularity.

Here is the link to the TechnoSocial podcast.

Episode 16: UTOKing with Andre Marquis June 28, 2021

Title: Toward a Unified Vision of Psychotherapy

In Episode 16, Gregg welcomes Andre Marquis. Andre is a professor, philosopher, author, and psychotherapist. He is an expert in applying Ken Wilber's Integral Theory to the field of psychotherapy. He is a member of the TOK Exec Committee, and he and Gregg have been long time friends and both leading members of the unified psychotherapy movement. In this episode, Andre shares his journey through various spiritual traditions and they explore the future of a unified view of psychotherapy from both Integral Theory and UTOK.

Here is a clip where Andre and Gregg discuss how to think about psychotherapy.

Here is a link to Andre's recent book on Integral Psychotherapy, and here is his home page.

Episode 17: UTOKing with Christopher Mastropietro July 12, 2021

Title: Potential Seeds and Missing Pieces

In Episode 17, Gregg welcomes Christopher Mastropietro, a scholar who joined Gregg and John Vervaeke on the Elusive "I" and explored the existential implications of the emerging model. He also co-authored with John the book, Zombies in Western Culture: A Twentieth Century Crisis. In this episode, Chris narrates his journey in existential philosophy and the nature of meaning, and then the discussion turns to the UTOK and the need for new sense making in the 21st Century.

Here is a clip where they explore how the UTOK is framed in relationship to "exo-naturalistic" claims and potential realities.

Episode 18: UTOKing with Waldemar Schmidt July 19, 2021

Title: Reflections on Being Human; Past, Present and Future

In Episode 18, Gregg welcomes Waldemar Schmidt. Dr. Waldemar Schmidt is Professor Emeritus at Oregon Health and Science University. He is the author of multiple peer-reviewed articles and the founder and editor of Cytopathology Annual, and the author of Principles and Techniques in Surgical Pathology. After retiring from a career in academic medicine (Pathology) he has been exploring and writing on human psychology and psychiatry. He is a founding member of the Theory of Knowledge Society. In this episode, Waldemar shares his reflections on the human condition and the need for a new view to cultivate wisdom and understanding in the 21st Century.

Here is a clip where he and Gregg discuss how to think the human condition and its future.

Episode 19: UTOKing with John Vervaeke July 26, 2021

Title: Special Edition: Introduction to the iQuad Coin

In Episode 19, Gregg welcomes back John Vervaeke for a new kind of UTOKing episode. This "special edition" is the first of a three part dialogos with John about the iQuad Coin. The Coin is a crucial piece of the UTOK philosophy that represents a symbolic placeholder for the unique human person as a subjective agent. In Part I, we explore how the Coin is framed in terms of the "human identity function" and the way it represents human consciousness in the cosmos. Later episodes will elucidate that core sub-functions of the Coin and how it provides a logos path to wisdom energy. Per usual, John is an excellent interlocutor and is able to see how the Coin might function as a “talisman of transformation.”

See here for the slide deck that was presented in this episode.

Episode 20: UTOKing with Alexander Elung August 2, 2021

Title: A Dialogos on the Nature of Emergence

In Episode 20, Gregg welcomes Alexander Elung. Alexander Elung is a screenwriter and composer based in Copenhagen, Denmark. He is currently writing a play about Carl Jung and composing music for a play based on Emilie Brontes novel Wuthering Heights. Alexander is a member of the philosophy forum IDW and have amongst other things been active in the development of transcendental emergentism, along with Alexander Bard. In this episode, he and Gregg explore the similarities and differences on the concept of emergence between his vision and that afforded by UTOK. As such, this episode gives listeners a deep dive into key metaphysical concepts.

Episode 21: UTOKing with Marv Goldfried and Paul Wachtel August 9, 2021

Title: Psychotherapy Integration: Past, Present and Future

In Episode 21, Gregg welcomes Marv Goldfried and Paul Wachtel. Both are Distinguished Professors of psychology and leading figures in the psychotherapy integration movement. In this episode, they share with Gregg the story of how they came together and co-founded the Society for the Exploration of Psychotherapy Integration, for which Gregg is the current President Elect. In addition, the three explore whether there is a "common core" that can define psychotherapy and what the future of the field looks like.

Here is a clip where they discuss the founding of SEPI.

Here is Paul's home page and here is Marv's.

Episode 22: UTOKing with Nicholas Maxwell August 16, 2021

Title: From Knowledge to Wisdom

In Episode 22, Gregg welcomes Professor Nicholas Maxell. He is a British philosopher who has devoted much of his working life to arguing that there is an urgent need to bring about a revolution in academia so that it seeks and promotes wisdom and does not just acquire knowledge. For nearly thirty years he taught philosophy of science at University College London, where he is now Emeritus Reader. In 2003 he founded Friends of Wisdom, an international group of people sympathetic to the idea that academic inquiry should help humanity acquire more wisdom by rational means. In this episode, he recounts his story and shares his vision for why science lost its way by ignoring metaphysics and why the academy should be grounded in an "aim-oriented empiricism" that is oriented toward the cultivation of wisdom.

Here is his homepage and here is the Friends of Wisdom Homepage.

Episode 23: UTOKing with Michael Kazanjian August 23, 2021

Title: Toward a Unified Philosophy

In Episode 23, Gregg welcomes Professor Michael Kazanjian. Michael M. Kazanjian teaches philosophy at Triton College in Illinois. He has published extensively, and his writing has appeared in numerous publications including the Environmental and Architectural Phenomenology Newsletter and Contemporary Philosophy. He is author of the book Unified Philosophy: Interdisciplinary Metaphysics, Cyberethics, and Liberal Arts, which offers a new vision of metaphysics that can potentially unify many different fields. In this exchange, he and Gregg discuss this work and its overlap with UTOK.

Episode 24: UTOKing with Zevi Slavin August 30, 2021

Title: The Art of Uniting with Reality

In Episode 24, Gregg welcomes the scholar Zevi Slavin. Zevi grew up in an Orthodox, Jewish, Hasidic family and discovered that other religions had mystical traditions that he found to be amazingly similar to his tradition. He began to share his teachings on the YouTube Channel Seekers of Unity. Gregg first heard about him through John Vervaeke, and he joined Zevi for a conversation on his journey (here). Zevi returns the favor and the two demonstrate the remarkable correspondence between the mystical tradition as Zevi understands it and the knowledge into wisdom path that emerges via UTOK.

Here is a 10 minute clip on the nature of mysticism. Here is the podcast on podbean.

Here is Zevi's YouTube channel, Seekers of Unity.

Episode 25: UTOKing with Adriana Forte Naili September 6, 2021

Title: Transcend and "Yinclude"

In Episode 25, Gregg welcomes the facilitator and coach Adriana Forte Naili. Adriana has been teaching workshops on feminine empowerment and leadership for years. She is a coach and a qualified Integral Semantics Facilitator. She co-founded Fully Human and the Good Cycle, and currently facilitates developmental retreats in Brazil, coaches individual clients, holds online groups and facilitates online programs for women. In this conversation, she and Gregg explore her journey into the feminine, and her philosophy for being and for understanding the menstrual cycle. They also explore the relation between masculine and feminine energies and ways of being in the world.

See here for a clip on the masculine and feminine. See here for the podcast on podbean.

See here for the Fully Human website, and here for the Good Cycle.

Episode 26: UTOKing with Jordan Hall September 9, 2021

Title: 5th Dimensional Paragliding

In Episode 26, Gregg welcomes Jordan Hall. He is co-founder and Executive Chairman of the Neurohacker Collective. He has a long and successful history of building disruptive technology companies, and has interests in contemporary philosophy, artificial intelligence and complex systems science, and the coevolution of human civilization and technology. He has been a frequent guest on Rebel Wisdom and is in the process of launching The Civium Project. In this episode, he and Gregg "sync up" their vocabularies regarding the evolution of complexification, "dive" into the metaphor of paragliding, and discuss the unfolding wave of causation and how and why now is the time to wake up and start the process of consciously evolving into a new way of being in the 21st Century.

Here is Jordan's YouTube Channel, and here is his Medium blog Deep Code, and here is this podcast on Podbean.

Episode 27: UTOKing with Kirk Schneider September 13, 2021

Title: An Existential Humanistic Vision for Psychology

In Episode 27, Gregg welcomes Kirk Schneider. Dr. Schneider is a licensed psychologist and leading spokesperson for contemporary existential-humanistic and integrative approaches in psychology. He is past editor of the Journal of Humanistic Psychology, adjunct faculty at Teachers College, Columbia University, and president of the Existential-Humanistic Institute (EHI). He is currently a candidate for the Presidency of the American Psychological Association. In this episode, he shares his story and they explore their overlapping visions for the future of the field.

See here for a clip on the state of politics and division. See here for the podcast on podbean.

See here for Kirk's homepage.

Episode 28: UTOKing with Bruce Alderman, iQuad Edition September 20, 2021

Title: Exploring the iQuad Coin, Part I

In Episode 28, Gregg welcomes back Bruce Alderman. Bruce is a philosopher and spiritual seeker who has deep knowledge of many Eastern traditions and Integral Theory, and he cohosts the Integral Stage with Layman. In this episode, Gregg starts giving Bruce a tour of the iQuad Coin. The iQuad Coin a key construct in UTOK, as it works with the Tree of Knowledge System to generate a new wholistic metaphysical frame for both first person and third person empirical positions. However, it needs more development and so Bruce is helping Gregg elaborate on the construct. Next week, Part II will be shared, which deepens the tour. The goal is to start to metaphorically distribute coins to cultivate the currency of wisdom energy.

Here is the episode on podbean.

Bruce's Facebook page; Bruce on his work on Integral Grammatology.

Episode 29: UTOKing with Bruce Alderman, iQuad Edition September 27, 2021

Title: Exploring the iQuad Coin, Part II

In Episode 29, Gregg and Bruce continue to explore the various facets of the iQuad Coin. In this episode they move from the Human Identification Matrix into the four sub-functions of the Coin, which expands the view from the subject into the world. Specifically, this includes the Q2 function (quantity/quality), the Conscious Field Function (the 4 easily accessed fields of conscious awareness), the Q4 function (the quadrant quadratic that bridges Ken Wilber's epistemology with UTOK's ontology), and the formal function, which links the subjective experience of the imaginary and real with the complex unit circle that grounds the Coin in mathematical concepts.

Here is the episode on podbean.

Bruce's Facebook page; Bruce on his work on Integral Grammatology.

Episode 30: UTOKing with Robert Ryan October 4, 2021

Title: World Systems 3.0

In Episode 30, Gregg welcomes Dr. Robert Ryan. Dr. Ryan holds a PhD in Business Administration, University of Pittsburgh with emphasis on strategic management, business ethics, and organizational learning and human cognition. His scholarly works explore competitive industry dynamics, grey market economics, the history of technology, Neo-Schumpeterian economics, artificial vs. natural cognition, and how sense-making systems evolve and change. In this episode, he lays out the basics of his World Systems 3.0 vision and he and Gregg explore how it aligns with UTOK and the 5th joint point.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is a 15 minute clip on World Systems and the future fluctuations Robert is seeing. Here is Robert's Facebook page.

Episode 31: UTOKing with Jim Rutt October 11, 2021

Title: UTOKing Game B

In Episode 31, Gregg welcomes Jim Rutt. He is the former CEO of Network Solutions, and served as Chairman of the Sante Fe Institute from 2009 thru 2012. He is a futurist and leading thinker who is well-known in this space for his podcast and playing a founding role in "Game B." In this episode, Jim Rutt shares his narrative and tells the story of the emergence of Game B. He also discusses his upcoming book, and he and Gregg riff on the relationship and synergy between Game B and UTOK, such that the 5th Joint Point can be framed as "UTOKing Game B".

Here is the episode on podbean.

Here is his podcast, the Jim Rutt Show. Here is the Game B Facebook page.

Episode 32: UTOKing with Darcia Narvaez October 18, 2021

Title: Morality Starts in the Womb

In Episode 32, Gregg welcomes Dr. Darcia Narvaez. She is Professor Emerita in the Department of Psychology at the University of Notre Dame, and has been identified as one of the top 2% of scientists worldwide. She is author of many excellent books and articles, including one of Gregg's all-time favorites, Neurobiology and the Development of Human Morality: Evolution, Culture, and Wisdom. In this episode, she describes her conception of the "Evolved Nest," which maps the key social, physiological, and ecological features that foster healthy human socio-emotional and moral development. They explore how this Nest aligns with the UTOK Tree of Life and the implications for society and human development.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Darcia's Homepage; The Evolved Nest: Darcia's Moral Landscape PT Blog; Here is a short film about her work, BreakingTheCycleFilm.org (also in Spanish; at YouTube with subtitles in 15 languages).

Episode 33: UTOKing with Alex Ebert October 25, 2021

Title: On FreQ Theory and Magnetic Zeros

In Episode 33, Gregg welcomes Alex Ebert. Alex is an American singer-songwriter and composer, best known for being the lead singer and songwriter for the American bands Ima Robot and Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros. He has won a Golden Globe Award and appeared on the Colbert Show. In this episode, Alex shares his narrative of how his musical career and involvement in the "loudness wars" led him to a series of insights about the nature of waves, frequency consolidations, relations between lack and desire, and the nature of emergence from quantity to qualities. He and Gregg then sync this up with UTOK, especially the iQuad coin, memes, and the upcoming singularity.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is a clip on "MEmes" and the singularity.

Here is his Facebook Page. Here is his Twitter handle.

Episode 34: UTOKing with Robert Cobbold November 1, 2021

Title: The Dawn of Conscious Evolution

In Episode 34, Gregg welcomes Robert Cobbold. He is a philosopher, educator, and public speaker who has delivered transformative educational experiences to over 40,000 young people worldwide (see here for more). He is founding editor of Conscious Evolution, an online publication and podcast aiming to disseminate the evolutionary worldview, and kindle an evolutionary transition. In this episode, Robert narrates how he had a spiritual awakening several years ago that prompted him on this journey of discovery and the production of the Conscious Evolution podcasts and webpage. He and Gregg then sync this up with UTOK, and explore ways to weave a conscious evolutionary thread together.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is the Conscious Evolution podcast series.

Episode 35: UTOKing with Michel Bauwens November 8, 2021

Title: Toward a Wisdom Commons

In Episode 35, Gregg welcomes Michel Bauwens. Michel is a theorist and developer in the emerging field of Peer-to-Peer (P2P) collaboration. He is also a writer, and conference speaker on the subject of technology, culture and business innovation. He founded the P2P Foundation, a global organization of researchers working in open collaboration in the exploration of peer production, governance, and property. In this episode, Michel recounts the twists and turns in his professional life and how he developed the vision and structure for the Peer-2-Peer Foundation. He also discusses his strong critique of the "woke" movement and how recent political battles have impacted the direction of the P2P Foundation. Near the end, he and Gregg sync up on a possible vision of a future wisdom commons.

Here is the episode on podbean.

Here is the P2P Foundation homepage, and here is the P2P Facebook page.

Episode 36: UTOKing with Layman Pascal (2) November 15, 2021

Title: The UTOK's DSM

In Episode 36, Gregg welcomes back Layman Pascal (see Episode 2). This is a special episode, that will be cross posted on the Integral Stage, which is hosted by Layman and Bruce Alderman. This episode focuses on how the UTOK frames mental disorders. Layman developed a series of questions about how the UTOK frames what mental disorders are and how they frame specific categories, including psychotic disorders, character neurosis, anxiety, depression, and many others, and Gregg runs through the view from UTOK. As such, this episode serves as a useful overview for understanding UTOK's approach to mental illness and psychological well-being and how it both overlaps with and is substantially different from psychiatry's approach as framed by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manuel (i.e., the DSM).

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is the Integral Stage YouTube Channel.

Episode 37: UTOKing with Tim Freke November 22, 2021

Title: Building the Science-Spirituality Bridge

In Episode 37, Gregg welcomes Tim Freke. Tim Freke is a pioneering philosopher whose bestselling books, inspirational talks, and life-changing events have touched the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. He has been recognized as one of ‘The 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People,’ and is the author of 35 books, including a top 6 Amazon ‘Surprise Bestseller’ and Daily Telegraph 'Book of the Year'. In this episode, Tim shares with Gregg his spiritual journey from his childhood into his current picture of an evolving spiritual cosmic vision. He discusses his concept of "unividualism" and he and Gregg discuss how it aligns with the UTOK cosmology. Indeed, in this conversation there are striking parallels in how Tim moved from spirituality to being more scientifically grounded, where Gregg starts in science and finds his way toward a spiritual worldview.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Tim Freke's homepage.

Episode 38: UTOKing with Zak Stein (2) December 6, 2021

Title: Making Consilient Choices

In Episode 38, Gregg welcomes back Dr. Zak Stein (see Episode 8). Well-known in the metamodern space, Zak is educational philosopher and author of many well-known articles and essays, and the book Education in a Time Between Worlds: Essays on the Future of Schools, Technology, and Society. He is also a contributor to the Consilience Project, where among other things he has taken a lead role on a powerful four-part series of essays on propaganda and the current social media environment (see here, here, here, and here). This conversation reviews Zak's analysis of education, propaganda and the concept of undue influence, and syncs it up with UTOK's frame, especially regarding the dynamics of justification, investment, influence and the nature of thought control.

Here is the episode on Podbean. Here is Zak's homepage.

Episode 39: UTOKing with Layman Pascal December 13, 2021

Title: Higher Pathology

In Episode 39, Gregg once again welcomes Layman Pascal back to the program (see Episode 2 and Episode 36). In this episode (which will be jointly shared on the Integral Stage) the continue their exploration into the implications UTOK has for human functioning, transcendence, transformation, and psychopathology by exploring the concept of "higher pathology." The conversation started on reflections on Nietzsche's character structure and reflections on the complicated relationship between brilliance, wisdom and pathological ways of being in the world, and what are the kinds of reflective questions that can be brought to bear to explore these issues.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is the Integral Stage YouTube Channel..

Episode 40: UTOKing with Fanny Norlin December 20, 2021

Title: Gracefully Syncing Feminine and Masculine Energies

In Episode 40, Gregg welcomes Fanny Norlin. She is a leading coach and business consultant who specializes in feminine leadership, strategy, grasping complexity, scaling ideas and systems thinking, and the relationship between the feminine and masculine energies. This conversation explores the Fanny's perspective, narrative, and history in developing her evolving perspective on feminine leadership, and then lines it up with UTOK's frame for understanding the Living, Mental and Cultural dimensions, as well as the kind of healthy, productive dance that can emerge between the masculine and feminine when they are positioned in right relationship to each other.

Here is the episode on Podbean. Here is Fanny's page on Linked In.

Episode 41: UTOKing with Carla Groom January 4, 2022

Title: The Problems with a Methods-Based Approach to Psychology

In Episode 41, Gregg welcomes Dr. Carla Groom. She is a "behavioral science pioneer" who works as Deputy Director for the Behavioral Science Unit in the Department of Work and Pensions in the United Kingdom. She received her doctorate in social psychology from Northwestern University, during which she realized there was a serious structural problem with how the methods-based approach to empirical research framed issues in psychological science. She went on to become a leading thinker in policy and organizational decision-making. In this conversation, she recounts her narrative, which includes major policy successes in the UK, and she and Gregg converse about why the empirical, methods based approach to behavioral science is flawed and how an approach grounded in the ontology of human mental behavior mapped by UTOK affords a radically different, and more helpful view.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Dr. Groom's profile on LinkedIn.

Episode 42: UTOKing with Brad Kershner January 10, 2022

Title: Toward a Holistic Philosophy of Education

In Episode 42, Gregg welcomes Dr. Brad Kershner. Brad is the Dean of the Kimberton Waldorf School. In addition to being an educational scholar and leader, he is the author of Understanding Educational Complexity: Integrating Practices and Perspectives for 21st Century Leadership. His research, teaching, and writing cover a wide range of topics, including education, leadership, parenting, race, technology, metamodernism, integral theory, meditation, developmental psychology, complexity, and sociocultural emergence. In this conversation with Gregg, Brad shares his narrative and the sync up on the themes necessary to cultivate a philosophically rich, holistic approach to education.

Here is Brad's LinkedIn Page. Here is the episode on Podbean.

Episode 43: UTOKing with Bernardo Kastrup January 17, 2022

Title: Analytic Idealism

In Episode 43, Gregg welcomes Bernardo Kastrup. He is the executive director of the Essentia Foundation, and his work is leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has doctoral degrees in philosophy and computer engineering, and he has authored many works and given many interviews delineating analytic idealism and why it affords the best ontological view. In this conversation, Bernardo provides an overview of analytic idealism, and he and Gregg explore its relation with UTOK. They demonstrate some key areas of alignment, especially in their shared critique of reductive physicalism, explore some overlap between Bernardo's concept of Mind-at-large and the Energy Information Implicate Order on the Tree of Knowledge System. They also riff on how UTOK frames metacognition, and Gregg introduces Justification Systems Theory to Bernardo and the two explore possible future domains in which the two systems might complement each other.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Bernardo's homepage.

Episode 44: UTOKing with Layman Pascal January 24, 2022

Title: Trans-justificatory Reflections

In Episode 44, Gregg continues his ongoing exploration of UTOK with Layman Pascal. The previous episodes explored UTOK's framing of DSM-type pathology and "higher" form of pathology, as might be found in visionaries or so-called crazy geniuses. This conversation explores UTOK's Justification Systems Theory and then moves to reflect on what might be "trans-justificatory". That is, once we understand humans as justifying apes from a naturalistic perspective, what kinds of conscious evolution might be considered from that vantage point and can humans in some ways transcend their immersion in justification space.

Here is the episode on podbean.

Episode 45: UTOKing with Michael Mascolo January 31, 2022

Title: Psychology, the Academy, and the Meaning Crisis

In Episode 45, Gregg welcomes Dr. Michael Mascolo. He is a Professor of Psychology at Merrimack College, and a renowned scholar in developmental and relational approaches in psychology. Among his many accomplishments, he is author and editor of numerous books and over a hundred professional articles, as well as the Values Matter blog on Psychology Today. He is also founder of Creating Common Ground, and an Executive Member of the TOK Society. In this conversation, he shares with Gregg his analysis of how human meaning and experience are fundamentally intersubjective in nature and what this means for a science of psychology and, more broadly, the structure and function of the academy and the current meaning crisis.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Dr. Mascolo's Facebook page.

Episode 46: UTOKing with Brandon Norgaard February 7, 2022

Title: Approaches to the Meta-Crises

In Episode 46, Gregg welcomes Brandon Norgaard. He is an author, researcher, and community organizer, and founder of The Enlightened Worldview Project, which works to bridge different perspectives and explore community efforts for expanding cultural and conscious evolution. In this episode, he shares with Gregg his recent mapping of the liminal web and the various approaches different communities are taking to the meta-crises. As such, this episode affords listeners a good map of this "corner of the internet" and the various lines of thought that are emerging.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is the home page of the Enlightenment Worldview Project.

Episode 47: UTOKing with Raven Connolly February 22, 2022

Title: Reflections on Sex, Gender, and Death

In Episode 47, Gregg welcomes Raven Connolly. She is an independent "philosopher queen" who travels in a mosaic of intellectual milieus, ranging from Justin Murphy’s IndieThinkers, to Peter Limberg’s The Stoa. She hosts and interviews guests at The Stoa, and is currently developing a philosophy of the ovum, secrecy, and marriage. In this episode, she shares with Gregg her reflections on sex, gender, and death. They explore how her more intuitive exploratory sense of this time between worlds aligns with UTOK's more formal theoretical architecture and together they align in noting the important symbiosis between the perspectives, and the episode affords some especially useful reflections on sex and gender dynamics.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Raven's Facebook page.

Episode 48: UTOKing with Rachel Hayden February 28, 2022

Title: Gender and Embodied, Transformational Living Through UTOK

In Episode 48, Gregg welcomes Rachel Hayden. Rachel is a leader in the Peer-to-Peer community and is working to translate metamodern and Game B ideas into real world practices. She also has recently transitioned and has developed a Socratic aspirational framework on transformation that incorporates the work of L.A. Paul on transformative experience and the work of Agnes Callard on aspiration, provides a better model. In this episode, she and Gregg explore gender, the current state of the world, and the kind of transformative practices that are needed and the ways UTOK might be able to provide a necessary conceptual framework.

Here is the episode on podbean.

Episode 49: UTOKing with James Schofield April 11, 2022

Title: Toward an Adequate Philosophy of Being

In Episode 49, Gregg welcomes James Schofield. He is a "generalist philosopher," professor, and author of A Phenomenological Revision of E.E. Harris's Dialectical Holism, which aims to synthesize 4E cognitive science and Bohm's philosophy of physics into a common metaphysical system that provides a solution to the hard problem of consciousness. He has twice been on Voices with Vervaeke (here and here). In this episode, he shares with Gregg his journey and the basic outline of what an adequate philosophy for consciousness looks like and how James' frame syncs up with UTOK.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is James' linked in page.

Episode 50: UTOKing with Brendan Graham Dempsey April 18, 2022

Title: Toward a Metamodern Spiritual Awakening

In Episode 50, Gregg welcomes Brendan Graham Dempsey. Brendan is a writer whose work focuses on the meaning crisis and the nature of spirituality in metamodernity (see here). He is also the host of the Metamodern Spirituality podcast, in which he interviews prominent voices on metamodernism and contemporary spirituality. In this episode, he recounts for Gregg his journey, and he and Gregg explore the metamodern spirituality movement, and why the time is right for knowledge systems that can generate a coherent integrative pluralism in a way oriented toward wisdom.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is the Metamodern Spirituality homepage.

Episode 51: UTOKing with Nicholas Lattanzio April 25, 2022

Title: Nondual Empiricism

In Episode 49, Gregg welcomes Nicholas Lattanzio. He is a psychologist with long standing interests in integral theory and Eastern philosophical traditions. A TOK Society member, he advocates for a "nondual empirical" position that he uses to bridge psychotherapy, philosophy and being in the world. He has interests and areas of expertise comprising existential/spiritual crises, anxiety disorders, substance use disorders, personality disorders, psychosis, self-harm, trauma, ADHD, depressive and mood disorders, dissociative disorders, and issues related to identity at various stages of development In this episode, he shares with Gregg his thinking and how nondual empiricism relates to UTOK.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is his linked in page.

Episode 52: UTOKing with Bruce Alderman May 9, 2022

Title: Reflections on Transpersonal Psychology

In Episode 52, Gregg welcomes back Bruce Alderman. Bruce is a philosopher and spiritual seeker who has deep knowledge of many Eastern traditions and Integral Theory, and he cohosts the Integral Stage with Layman. In this episode, Bruce shares with Gregg his perspective on psychology and psychotherapy. In particular, he emphasizes how his training in Ken Wilber's Integral theory and the transpersonal movement more generally aligned with his spiritual teachings and experiences to give him a perspective on "spiritual emergencies" that most mainstream approaches to psychotherapy are silent about.

Bruce's Facebook page; Bruce on his work on Integral Grammatology.

Episode 53: UTOKing with John Stewart May 23, 2022

Title: An Evolutionary Manifesto

In Episode 53, Gregg welcomes John Stewart. John is an Australian-based evolutionary theorist and a core member of the Evolution, Complexity and Cognition Research Group of the Free University of Brussels. He is the author of Evolution’s Arrow: The Direction of Evolution and the Future of Humanity, and has developed The Evolutionary Manifesto, which proposes the needed emergence of "intentional evolutionaries" who are people who see the emergent processes of greater cooperation and evolvability and recognize the need for a global movement in this direction. In this podcast, he narrates his vision with Gregg, and they discuss the overlap and difference with UTOK.

Here is John Stewart's academic home page, and here is his recent talk with John Vervaeke.

Episode 54: UTOKing with Stephen Bacon May 30, 2022

Title: Psychotherapy as Constructing Reality

In Episode 54, Gregg welcomes Stephen Bacon. Stephen a theorist, author, educator, and clinical psychologist. He is the author of Practicing Psychotherapy in Constructed Reality: Ritual, Charisma, and Enhanced Client Outcomes, which makes the argument that psychotherapy fundamentally is about a relational process whereby individuals reconstruct their narrative about health and healing and that the field's techniques and specific interventions for diagnosed problems have little to no inherent power. In this episode, he and Gregg review this powerful argument and explore its implications.


Here is Stephen's home page, and here are some videos he has made on this topic.

Episode 55: UTOKing with Tyler Volk June 6, 2022

Title: Syncing Up Maps of Big History

In Episode 55, Gregg welcomes Tyler Volk. Tyler is Professor Emeritus of Biology and Environmental Studies at New York University. He is author of several books, including Metapatterns Across Space, Time, and Mind, and From Quarks to Culture: How We Came to Be. Across his professional life, he has developed a big picture view of the cosmos called "combogenesis" which maps 12 levels of complexity into three realms. In this episode, he and Gregg sync up this map with UTOK's Tree of Knowledge System, with the result being a clear synergy and a hopeful advance for how we might correspond the various Big History maps into a coherent integrated pluralism.

Here is Tyler's home page, and here is a list of his academic publications.

Episode 56: UTOKing with Scott Jordan June 13, 2022

Title: Toward a Coherent Vision of Nature and Meaning

In Episode 56, Gregg welcomes Scott Jordan. Scott is currently the Chair of the Department of Psychology at Illinois State University in Normal, Illinois where he is also Director of the Institute for Prospective Cognition. In this episode, he recounts his theoretical work in Wild Systems Theory and how it moves scientific psychology toward an integrated framework that conceptualizes organisms as embodiments of the phylogenetic, cultural, social, and developmental contexts from they emerged and in which they sustain themselves. He and Gregg sync this up with UTOK’s vision and explore what a coherentist approach to nature, consciousness, and meaning looks like in the 21st Century.

Here is a link to the podcast on podbean. Here is Scott’s university homepage, here is Dark Loops Productions on YouTube.

Episode 57: UTOKing with Rich Blundell June 20, 2022

Title: Cultivating Ecological Intelligence

In Episode 57, Gregg welcomes Rich Blundell. Rich is a theorist and activist who promotes the philosophy of “Oika,” which is the relational intelligence of nature expressed through human thought and action. Rich’s life purpose is to promote a culture of oika, which he believes will heal people and the planet and orient us toward a beautiful future. In this episode, Rich shares his narrative and his experiences with loving nature and how that emerged and blended with his training in Big History to generate his current philosophy and work with artists. In this episode, in addition to sharing his perspective, he asks Gregg about how UTOK transcends the Enlightenment Gap and gives us a new map of Big History that can align with a philosophy of ecological intelligence.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is Oika’s homepage, and here is a recent talk Rich had with John Vervaeke.

Episode 58: UTOKing with Layman Pascal (5) June 27, 2022

Title: Relational Value, Self-Esteem, and Spirituality

In Episode 58, Gregg welcomes back Layman Pascal. This is Layman’s fifth time on the podcast, so he needs no introduction. Gregg joined Layman in May for the first “metamodern spirituality retreat” hosted by Brendan Graham Dempsey, and aligned more deeply Layman’s approach to spirituality with UTOK’s metapsychology. A point of contact that needed more elaboration was the organization of the self and the nature of self-esteem and the relational world. In this episode, Layman takes the opportunity to flesh out how UTOK’s Influence Matrix frames social influence, relational value, and self-esteem, and the implications this has for spirituality.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is a discussion about the metamodern retreat on the Integral Stage, and here is a blog on relational value and social influence.

Episode 59: UTOKing with Curt Jaimungal July 4, 2022

Title: Exploring Theories of Everything

In Episode 56, Gregg welcomes Curt Jaimungal. Curt a Torontonian filmmaker and who developed the popular Theories of Everything YouTube channel, where he explores some of the cutting edge theorists and ideas pertaining to theoretical physics, consciousness, free will, and the nature of God. In this podcast, Curt shares his narrative and the journey that resulted in him developing the podcast. He also shares his perspective on some of the key questions that any T.O.E. faces. They discuss some differences between physical and metaphysical T.O.E.s, and he queries Gregg some on UTOK and they plan for future exchanges on Curt’s channel.

Here is a link to the podcast on podbean. Here is the link to the Theories of Everything channel.


Episode 60: UTOKing with Guy Sengstock July 11, 2022

Title: Circling Around Wisdom Energy

In Episode 60, Gregg welcomes Guy Sengstock. Guy is the founder and creator of the Circling™ Method, he has been facilitating transformation for individuals, groups and corporations internationally for more than 20 years. He is well-known in this corner of the internet as a philosopher, poet, and visionary. In this episode, Guy shares the story of how circling came about and then he and Gregg riff off of the relation between circling and psychotherapy, and the philosophy of circling and UTOK. Together, they circle around the concept of wisdom energy and offer some embodied reflections on how to cultivate it.

Here is the episode on podbean. Here is a link to the Circling Institute.